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Teragon Profile
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Apprentice

Registered: 08-2011
Posts: 196
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Re: Some Interesting info about TDKRises.


Thanks ! I'm from Belgium, Brussels and I usually speak French. Though I do speak Dutch a little bit too, you kinda have to in this country.
11/29/2011, 12:18 pm Link to this post Send Email to Teragon   Send PM to Teragon
 
morphosis Profile
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Registered: 08-2010
Posts: 192
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Re: Some Interesting info about TDKRises.


Quote:

EchoSix wrote:

Quote:

morphosis wrote:

...with your theory anyone who does a book, movie, etc about an already existing character will be plagiarism.





No. That's certainly NOT, at all, what I was eluding to, in any way, at all.

The dragon movie Aragon, was virtually the exact same story as Star Wars. Harry Potter has a lot of similarities to Star Wars. Yet the plot of Star Wars, originated with Akira Kurosawa’s "The Hidden Fortress", almost verbatim.

"Borrowing" or "plagiarism"? That's left up to the audience. That's an idividual perspective, that's very similar to our own versions of recasting.

I'm cool with someone dumping silicone over a movie prop and offering copies to anyone interested.

But you dare do the same thing to something that one of us (a Batman fan) has made... Then it's ostracism.

Some people are far more strict about it. Some could care less either way. To each his own. Just don't tell ME I'm wrong in my opinions.

When Miller wrote Year One, did he "borrow" from previous stories? Only so far as to capture the history of Batman, how his parents were murdered and it warped him to become Batman. Miller also included many other existing characters, to tell his story, in a completely new way.

Batman: Year One, Knightfall, The Man Who Laughs, Hush, A Death in the Family, Long Halloween, The Killing Joke and many other graphic novels, are ALL original stories, while only borrowing off of previously known events or characters and not capturing a previous comic, almost frame for frame.

Batman Begins, a film which I THOROUGHLY enjoyed, was practically frame for frame, from Miller's novel.

I'm only saying, if you're going to copy the main plot device and the way the plot is laid out throughout an existing novel/story and you plan on altering the setting, the characters, the dialogue, the time and mood of the story... Then it's more to what Lucas did with Star Wars.

Some call that Inspiration.

He took a well established, almost mathematical approach of storytelling, and added completely new elements and characters and dialogue, to a Japanese Samurai setting.

But what David Goyer wrote and Christopher Nolan made, was a copy of a main plot device and they copied the way that plot is laid out throughout the story, which they got from a Batman graphic novel, where they changed no names, no characters, no settings or anything.

Yeah, they added certain elements from other existing Batman graphic novels, to either give the fans more or to not make it a complete forgery... But they certainly didn't call the film "Batman: Year One". And that was where the story came from. Almost verbatim.

Now, listen to this... To the average moviegoer, they would never know otherwise. They would never know that the film they just saw, was anything other than completely extraordinary. They would walk out of the film and scream, "HOLY SH*T! THAT WAS FANTASTIC!!!! THIS CHRISTOPHER NOLAN GUY MADE THE BEST BATMAN FILM EVER!!!!"

But we all know otherwise. We all know that Nolan and Goyer "borrowed" pretty much the same story, frame for frame, as Year One.

Did Tim Burton do that with his films? Yeah, I guess you could say he used a little here and a little there, to make an original story.

Did Joel Schumacher do that with his films? No.

Did any of the writers from any previous graphic novels do anything but come up with their own stories, while only writing known events and characters into them? No.

My point has always been...

Today's common moviegoers, who've had no previous exposure to the Batman world, are disillusioned by today's modern, armored, Nolan Batman.

Today's common moviegoers are too focused on their iPhones and iPads to bother learning that it's NOT an original work and that there are FAR better versions of what Batman truly is.

Also... When you base an entire film on an existing story, isn't there commonly a credit given to that, such as "Based on the novel 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?'"

Give credit where credit is due.

David Goyer and Chris Nolan have made the best Batman films yet. But (and that's a big but) they aren't doing the character justice, by making the ignorant think they told it the way he is.





Yes like I said Nolan borrowed from Miller, Loeb/Sale, O'Neill, Morrison, Kane all the greats, and he's mentioned that many many times. Bale has mentioned it, but Begins is not frame for frame Year One. Miller had no League of Shadows (Assassins), No Ras Al Guhl, no Rachel Dawes, No Scarecrow, no Batmobile, etc etc...Also Year One involved Catwoman which did not appear in Begins. His suit was built by Wayne Enterpirses Science division for the military, none of that is in Year One... I just don't see the frame by frame you mentioned.

Thats why its "influenced" by Year One of course and all the other graphic novels mentioned, most definitely, but by no means frame by frame ripping off... and Nolan, Goyer, and Bale have said numerous times where the ideas came from. I dont think they are trying to trick the audience who may not know some of these novels, but a very high percentage of movie goers to see a Batman film will be familiar with these stories.
They have given credit many times to being influenced by Miller and all the others.

Maybe your over stating what you meant by as Frame by Frame, and I totally understand how you see a little Year One in Begins. Everyone sees that. But its definitely not Frame by Frame. There are just similarities and influences.


Last edited by morphosis, 11/29/2011, 1:27 pm
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EchoSix Profile
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Caped Crusader

Registered: 08-2004
Location: Occupying Gotham
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Re: Some Interesting info about TDKRises.


I understand what you're saying.

You don't seem to understand my main objective.

You seem to be focusing way too heavily on what's merely *my explanation* of why I believe people need to read the origins of Nolan's Batman movies, and not the viewpoint I'm aiming at.




 

Last edited by EchoSix, 11/29/2011, 3:11 pm


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11/29/2011, 3:11 pm Link to this post  
 
morphosis Profile
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Apprentice

Registered: 08-2010
Posts: 192
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Re: Some Interesting info about TDKRises.


Quote:

EchoSix wrote:

I understand what you're saying.

You don't seem to understand my main objective.

You seem to be focusing way too heavily on what's merely *my explanation* of why I believe people need to read the origins of Nolan's Batman movies, and not the viewpoint I'm aiming at.



cool, yes i understand. I kind of think a lot of people know the origins of Nolan's Batman movies. Especially the ones who are into comic books. But of course there are people out there who think its all Nolan. Then again some people might not even know who Chris Nolan is because not everyone keeps up on movie directors/writers.

:)
11/29/2011, 3:23 pm Link to this post Send Email to morphosis   Send PM to morphosis
 
EchoSix Profile
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Caped Crusader

Registered: 08-2004
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Re: Some Interesting info about TDKRises.


This shows a little bit of a hint, I think.



Image


Remember how we saw the title of Batman Begins, at the very end of the film?

Then we saw the title of The Dark Knight at the end of the film.

Each title held a specific meaning, after you saw the film. As though to say, "NOW Batman begins. And NOW he's the dark "Knight" of Gotham.



"The Dark Knight Rises".








---
"An error doesn't become a mistake, until you refuse to correct it."

12/3/2011, 7:05 pm Link to this post  
 
Celtic007 Profile
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Apprentice

Registered: 01-2009
Posts: 135
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Re: Some Interesting info about TDKRises.


I think the titles thing is just something Nolan does. The ending of Inception and Memento, for example, restate the title at the end before the credits.

That's a pretty cool pic of Bane though.
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BatHombre Profile
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Dark Knight

Registered: 04-2008
Location: Lakewood, Co
Posts: 775
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Re: Some Interesting info about TDKRises.


Yeah, the title thing is something that Nolan does but I agree, it really seems to work for the Batman films.

Last edited by BatHombre, 12/4/2011, 2:07 am


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I'm a dog chasing cars...I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it.
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Shreddsofevidence Profile
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Apprentice

Registered: 08-2008
Posts: 206
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Re: Some Interesting info about TDKRises.


Quote:

theHeroYouDeserve wrote:

Wait what?

8 years and no new suit?!

Well I'm a bit interested by this... so that's something I guess.



in my opinion, I don't think there has to be a new suit or new upgrade every single film. Look at the comics, there are upgrades yes but not every single time he encounters a new villian or even whenever there is a new artist. For the most part, not all the time, Batman uses the same classic suit with minor to no ungrades. His gadgets get more upgrade than his suit does.



---
I hear a voice inside, it's crowning to a scream. I'm not the next of them, I am the first of me.
12/17/2011, 6:52 am Link to this post Send Email to Shreddsofevidence   Send PM to Shreddsofevidence
 


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