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Jants Profile
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Registered: 02-2004
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Re: Okay, got some new photos up of my 89 Batsuit. :)


My current Shidoshi trained under Dan Innosanto for 15 years, so I got a lot of my JKD training from him and I trained under another Sensei who trained under Dan also. Mostly at parks, college wrestling rooms or anywhere we can.

The only thing I'll say about the arts you mentioned is that they are modern martial arts that aren't even 100 years old, basically after the warring times they were created. Kung Fu being the exception, however most Kung Fu that is taught today is a watered down version of what the ancient Gung Fu practitioners trained like, in that they trained rougher and often were injured from training.

Tae Kwon Do came from Karate, it was brought to Korea, which is why they are so similar in many respects. Karate was a sport version of Okinawa-Te, which is where Karate came from, when Japan took over the island of Okinawa and Okinawa was officially considered a part of Japan, they took the art of Te and created the sport art of Karate, which no longer had the really deadly techniques involved. Aikido was Sensei Ueshiba's invention, which was a modern form of flowing and isn't more then 60 years old. Aikido comes from Aiki-jujutsu, which is the locking and trapping tehniques of the Samurai. However, the samurai were trained to actually kill or injure their opponent, because these techniques were meant for the battlefield. Ueshiba-sensei trained to teach one to flow and be gentle, which is great training also, but is far different then actual Battlefield training.

Bruce understood that to study war, means to study all form of war and understanding what the warriors of the past went through, which is what made his art different. However, there were a lot of aspects of war that were not part of his teachings. In the ancient martial arts (martial came from the god of war Mars, so Martial Arts means warring arts), they taught a well rounded form of fighting. unarmed combat, ground fighting, Guns, knives, swords, throwing objects, bow and arrows, stick fighting (from 6-1 foot sticks), chained weapons, evasion, escaping, concealment etc.. which is why I train in what I train in. Budo Taijutsu, which dates back thousands of years. Budo means martial arts of Japan and taijutsu (roughly translated) means body art. There are a lot of similarities to what Bruce preached, because he understood that what passes off as martial arts these days, is truly not what martial arts is. Basically what I'm saying is that what he talked about was nothing new, it was only new here in the West. I still respect him, but do not believe he was the ultimate master. He even stated in many books that he was not a good fighter, he was a good technician. :wink

Last edited by Jants, 8/23/2004, 1:48 am


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8/23/2004, 1:17 am Link to this post Send Email to Jants   Send PM to Jants
 
deadcities Profile
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Registered: 05-2004
Location: www.cityofgotham.org
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Re: Okay, got some new photos up of my 89 Batsuit. :)


To say that Taekwondo came from Karate is only true to an extent. Karate was imposed on the Korean people by the occupying Japanese (They outlawed the practice of native Korean arts during the occupation). Taekwondo was created after the liberation of Korea. General Choi-Hong Hi, the person credited with creating the name "Tae Kwon Do", being extremely anti-Japanese (as most Koreans were because of WWII), made a concerted effort to ensure that the core of TKD's techniques reflected Korea's indigenous arts of Tae-Kyun, Subak-ki, and the fighting arts of the Hwarang (Korea's rough equivalent of the Samurai) as much as it did the Karate that most Korean martial artists at the time had trained in.
The Koreans have historically "revised" TKD's history to the point that they basically completely deny any Japanese influence on the style. Karate's influence on TKD is undeniable regardless. However, Taekwondo's roots are as much Korean as they are Japanese.
8/23/2004, 2:23 am Link to this post Send Email to deadcities   Send PM to deadcities
 
Jants Profile
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Re: Okay, got some new photos up of my 89 Batsuit. :)


Well said and 100% true. That's why I mentioned, "which is why they are so similar in many respects". Though almost all of the Kata are exactly the same, the stances and applications are identicle. However, they do have other true Korean art forms within the training.

To take it a bit deeper, all of the Korean and Japanese martial arts come from China. 2 of the traditions in my art form are known for coming directly from China. What the Japanese martial arts are know for is, removing the extra and getting to the point, efficiency first. However the roots all originate from China (it even goes deeper then that, in that Chinese martial arts came from India, but that is a whole lot of writing hehehe).

Man did this thread turn into something completely different hehe..but it's good info to share. So about my suit... :)

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artsee1 Profile
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Re: Okay, got some new photos up of my 89 Batsuit. :)


Jants you know alot more of the history of martial arts than I do for sure. Thanks for sharing. I am still a big Bruce Lee fan first and foremost. I like something I can see, think about and relate to in a tangable modern day form I guess more. Thanks for sharing that though. Very informative.

Paul

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youngbat Profile
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Re: Okay, got some new photos up of my 89 Batsuit. :)


well now, guys (janty and Paul) we must see an .mpg here with you guys IN suits demonstrating various styles. That would be awesome. No one has ever seen that in any batsuit. The other thing is that HOW you move in a suit contributes a lot to the overall effect of the suit. i.e. if you're clumsy, deep down feel silly, it's gona show in the suit. Serious Martial arts training would help sell the character tremendously.
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Sidekick

Registered: 05-2004
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Re: Okay, got some new photos up of my 89 Batsuit. :)


Jants, its funny how many martial artist cross paths... Dan Innosanto and my former instructor Wally Jay know each other very well. Bruce even studied/trained with Wally early on.

Interesting conversation this has turned out to be...
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deadcities Profile
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Registered: 05-2004
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Re: Okay, got some new photos up of my 89 Batsuit. :)


To the best of my knowledge, TKD never actually used any of the Japanese Kata, if that's what you mean. However, most Tang Soo Do kwans (systems) still use the Pyung-Ahn hyungs (katas) though, and they are the same katas used in Shotokan.
As for coming from China, yeah that's a given. "Kara-Te" translates to "China Hand" in Japanese (although I heard that Gichin Funakoshi changed it to "Empty Hand"), and "Tang Soo" translates to the same thing in Korean.

But yeah, the suit rocks! ;)
8/23/2004, 2:14 pm Link to this post Send Email to deadcities   Send PM to deadcities
 
Jants Profile
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Re: Okay, got some new photos up of my 89 Batsuit. :)


Hey ZD, that's cool that you trained under Wally Jay. From what I know, his Jujutsu is exceptional.

dc, Most TKD studios around here combine Pyung-Ahn hyungs as 1 system within their TKD traingin which are exactly the same as Shotokan or Ryobu-Kai karate kata. When I used to compete in Ryobu-Kai karate kata and kumite tournaments, we had TKD practitioners competing against us in the exact same Kata.

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cltbat Profile
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Dark Knight

Registered: 02-2004
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Re: Okay, got some new photos up of my 89 Batsuit. :)


Jants , 1st of all ..I love the new suit ....2ndly - this has been a great post to read , I dig the history lesson.

I have been a judo player for the better part of 30 years....(man , time flies! ) anyway I just want to show that with great training and many hours spent in the dojo ...you can go from this ...

Image

to beating up little girls in only 30 short years !!! :up

Image

Sensei Tim
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Blackwood Bat Profile
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Registered: 02-2004
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Re: Okay, got some new photos up of my 89 Batsuit. :)


 :rollin
Tough guy....you and Kramer! :whack

John :flapbat

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