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Caped Crusader
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Armor Gluing Advice


Hey guys,

As you saw in my other post, I'm planning on gluing the chestpiece down to my wetsuit. I've decided I'm going to try it tomorrow. So I'm wondering, which DAP do I use? Everyone's saying DAP is the way to go, but there are several different DAP adhesives.

Also, how long will I have to wait in the suit while the adhesive cures on me(er, uh, on the suit... lol)?

I've also heard mention of Goop being used. I've got Marine Goop, would that work? And how long(in the suit) for that if I decide to use that?

Last edited by Deadly Lemur, 1/31/2006, 1:31 am


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Re: Which DAP to use?


Well, I've used DAP two times now. Each time with flying colors.

This is what I used...

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The actual fabric surface of your wetsuit should be fairly thin, regardless of the thickness it is... Therefore, I'd say no less than four coats of DAP in order to allow it to get tacky. Five would be better, but it also depends on just how thick each coat is. After the first coat dries, it will almost vanish and look as though there’s nothing there, but each successive coat will glaze over better. What you're looking for is a "sheen" to the glue and you want the fabric pattern to disappear.

You'll only need two coats of DAP on the back of your armor... Depending on how much texture it has to it.

My **** '89 armor was very bumpy, so I did three coats on the back of the armor.

 


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10/22/2005, 8:48 pm Link to this post  
 
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Re: Which DAP to use?


The thing with DAP is that if your suit is not even given a light coat of latex and the sweat can work its way to the underside like with a lycra suit, it will eventually break hold from the latex piece.

DAP + moisture = armor on ground

I like to always do a little edging with good old ZAP to make sure its there for good. Its worth it.

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Re: Which DAP to use?


Dude you've got a DELL!!!

Actually so should you apply one coat of DAP and then wait till it tacks then apply a second coat and build this up? How many cans will you go through in this process?

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10/23/2005, 3:11 am Link to this post Send Email to zerog270   Send PM to zerog270
 
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Re: Which DAP to use?


Each time I've done it, I've only used about a third of that exact can you see in the picture. They sell smaller sizes if you want to get that instead.

I think you may be under the thought that you have to completely cover the backside of the armor as well as the area of the bodysuit that it's getting adhered to... This is wrong.

DON'T do that.

DON'T DO THAT!

All that needs to be done, is the first inch or so, of the inside edge of the armor and then the same amount on the bodysuit or wetsuit that you're attaching it to. If you completely covered the inside area of the armor and allowed it to glue itself down tightly to the bodysuit, it wouldn't retain the form and shape that it was molded at. Say for instance, the chest area... If you pushed down the chest muscles so that they would stick to the bodysuit, it would never come back up and wouldn't stay at the muscular shape.

I put on the bodysuit, lay the latex or urethane armor onto the spot it's gonna' get glued to, my wife marks the edges of the armor onto the bodysuit and when it's time to glue, SHE brushes only a one inch wide line of glue, that needs about five coats to get it to that "glaze" I mentioned.

BUT, we stay away from the reference line by about a half an inch, so that there's no chance of glue showing after the armor is put down and in case the armor doesn't go down EXACTLY where it was originally intended. That edge that doesn't get the glue on it, can always get touched up afterwards with either Bondini or Super Glue. They both bond almost immediately for a very clean application and to glue down the very edge that didn't get stuck down by the DAP.

Now, since this is called CONTACT CEMENT, yo have to apply glue to both the armor AS WELL AS the bodysuit. Read the directions on the can for their specific times allowed for drying. We usually wait about ten minutes between coats. The first coat on fabric visibly dissapears, but takes a while longer to dry, so I'd wait about fifteen minutes for that.

When you do this though, there's an ultra-important fact...


You MUST protect your skin from the glue! WRAP YOURSELF IN SARAN WRAP!! PUT EXTRA CARE AND LAYERS IN THE CROTCH AREA AND AROUND YOUR ARMPIT AREA!!!

Intense heat and burning and hair pulling will result if you don't do this! I'm not kidding.



Oh, and I don't have a Dell... Just a Dell monitor. I built my PC.emoticon






Last edited by EchoSix, 10/23/2005, 7:42 am


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10/23/2005, 7:30 am Link to this post  
 
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Re: Which DAP to use?


As for cursedbat's suggestion, should I cover the entire armored area with latex? Or just the area that's getting the DAP applied to it? Sounds like a good idea but I'm starting to run low on latex right now. emoticon

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Re: Which DAP to use?


People argue that the suit is hoter if it is covered in latex but I have worn both and there is no difference. The part where the armor goes down will be covered with armor so how is that going to be hotter if there is a skin of latex? There is latex armor on it either way emoticon

So if you put a nice skin of latex where the armor is going it makes it so you dont need to wrap yourself all up in wrap if you do it right. And also the glue will let go easy if you get sweat through. With it sealed you wont get that and also if you edge with ZAP, which is best, the suit will never let go unless you rip it, you get a clean edge, and the bond is instant because of the latex to latex.

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10/23/2005, 3:40 pm Link to this post Send Email to cursedbat   Send PM to cursedbat
 
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Re: Which DAP to use?


Cursedbat ... When you brush the latex onto the bodysuit or Under Armor or whatever it is you use, do you wear it on your body and have someone else do it for you or do you apply it while it's on a form that's the same size and shape as you are?

I tried brushing the latex onto my bodysuit, but after it cured, it conformed to the smaller mannequin I had it on, so I couldn't even get it on.

I just can't imagine wearing it all freakin' day while waiting for the latex to dry. It doesn't dry very quickly on the first coat when it's applied to fabric. I can't imagine the whole suit being done in one day and you'd need to do it in at least two coats AND you can't move around much... Not to mention sitting.

How's it done easily? Or isn't it?




 

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10/23/2005, 3:59 pm Link to this post  
 
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Re: Which DAP to use?


ok, my question was if I could just latex the area the DAP itself is being applied to, not necessarily the entire area under the armor, but just the area where the *DAP* will touch the suit. That's what I'm wondering. Because like I said I'm running low on latex. emoticon

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Re: Which DAP to use?


Since you only do one layer or so of latex on the suit, couldn't you accelerate drying time with a hair dryer? Or heat gun?

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Re: Which DAP to use?


If you have a form that is slightly bigger than you than it is a plus of course but not necessary.

I have the guy put the suit on, outside of course and a nice day helps allot. Get a couple fans and a blow dryer. You can brush it on but if you have a heavy load air brush or better a dump gun used for resin you can shoot a nice even layer on it that is like glass. Either way lay your first coat and than just turn the fans on him and start in with the dryer. Give him a pair of sticks to hold his hands up like crutches as if you were doing a lifecast. It should dry in about 8-10 minutes unless its a cold day in a place like Chicago. Repeat the process 2 more times and you should be done in about 30-40 minutes. Take some powder and powder the suit so that it wont stick to itself and gently help the model creep out of the suit and hang it for a couple days. BOOM that's it perfect glass with all the perks.

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Re: Which DAP to use?


Wow. emoticon

You make it sound so easy.

I'd love to go about it that way, but I don't think there's anyone around here who's capable of assisting to that extent.

I guess you'd mask off the existing latex armor, so that it doesn't get covered? And of course protect the underside of the bodysuit so the latex doesn't bond o all the hair?




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10/23/2005, 7:44 pm Link to this post  
 
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Re: Which DAP to use?


Cool. emoticon

But for the second time I'm not sure that answers my second question. emoticon

Should I reword that question(I wouldn't know how, really)? Ah well, I'll just do it the way I asked about and if it comes off i'll just dap it on again.

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10/23/2005, 8:19 pm Link to this post Send Email to PatrickJ   Send PM to PatrickJ
 
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Re: Which DAP to use?


 emoticon

I can't answer that one for ya' buddy. I'm not the one who suggested applying latex to the areas you need to apply the DAP to.

I WILL say however, that I've sweated my ass of in the suit that I applied DAP to and in trying to get the armor off again, I tore it as you know... I think you've seen the pictures in another post of mine.

I didn't have an issue with my sweat breaking down the strength of the glue.




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10/23/2005, 8:52 pm Link to this post  
 
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Re: Which DAP to use?


Ok then. Thanks. well, Ive already painted the suit in latex around the edges of where the armor will be anyway. After about 3 hours of walking around like C3-P0 waiting for it to dry(and applying the latex in additional areas) I'm about ready to get out of the thing... I'm stiff as a board right now. emoticon

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Re: Which DAP to use?


would DAP be the proper product if im using Under Armor? or is there a better method for that?
10/24/2005, 12:31 am Link to this post Send Email to shwshnk15   Send PM to shwshnk15
 
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Re: Which DAP to use?


I think it works with under armour as well, I hope it does, Im getting ready to glue mine any day now, and thats what I'm using. I covered the areas to be glued w/ black liquid latex, then Im going to use DAP. I'll let you know how it turns out.

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Re: Which DAP to use?


That's essentially what I did... We'll see if it works or not when I glue the armor on.

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Re: Which DAP to use?


I've never had any luck with DAP. It burns plus it takes a long time to cure. I use Loctite now because it bonds much faster.
10/24/2005, 9:36 am Link to this post Send Email to BigBadBat   Send PM to BigBadBat
 
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Re: Which DAP to use?


Which Loctite? I have their "Handyman's All-Purpose Cement".

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10/24/2005, 1:54 pm Link to this post Send Email to PatrickJ   Send PM to PatrickJ
 
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Re: Which DAP to use?


Quote:

PatrickJ wrote:

Which Loctite? I have their "Handyman's All-Purpose Cement".



Loctite Super Glue. You can find it at Walmart near the paint section with the other glues.

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10/24/2005, 8:42 pm Link to this post Send Email to BigBadBat   Send PM to BigBadBat
 
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Re: Which DAP to use?


Oh, ok... That's good stuff too. I might use that to edge the armor since I have some of that too.

I just did the DAP job today. Holy crap, that stuff bonds instantly and strongly. I'm lucky I got the armor down in the position I wanted, because I'm not sure that stuff is ever gonna come off again.

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10/25/2005, 4:49 pm Link to this post Send Email to PatrickJ   Send PM to PatrickJ
 
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Re: Which DAP to use?


It will, if you want it to.

Just remember, if you do ever desire to yank it off... Pull the fabric off of the armor, don't pull the armor off of the fabric.





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10/25/2005, 5:45 pm Link to this post  
 
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Re: Which DAP to use?


Cool, thanks for the tip.

I just bondini'ed the edges down. Lookin good. emoticon

Now I don't have to worry about any straps shifting wrong or becoming un-adjustable. emoticon

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Re: Which DAP to use?


Ya' gonna' brush the latex on? It'd hide the markings from the wetsuit.








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10/25/2005, 7:09 pm Link to this post  
 
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Re: Which DAP to use?


I got a couple requests via pm to tell how I used the DAP to glue the piece down. So I thought I would actually post a few words on it here along with a couple or 3 pictures of the finished result. emoticon

Basically I just did it the way EchoSix suggested, with a couple minor tweaks. First of all, I suited up in the diveskin, with a couple tshirts underneath. I had my sister trace out the outline of the armor. I then had her paint some black latex along the inside of the outline. After a couple hours of walking around like a protocol droid so there are no creases in the suit that can be made permanent by the drying latex, the diveskin was ready to be DAPped.

However, my sister had other obligations, so I had to make it a one-man job. I stuffed the diveskin full of clothing and spare fabric so it resembled a human form. I took this "headless body"(lol) outside and laid it down. I took a 1" chip brush and painted a 1" wide swath of DAP about an inch inward of the armor's outline. I then did the same on the back of the armor itself, painting a 1" wide swath about an inch inward of its edge. I repeated this 3 times for the armor and 3 times for the diveskin. I then let the DAP tack up for about 20 minutes.

Then I carefully placed the armor how I wanted it to look on the skin. Be careful at this point because the bond is INSTANT. Don't press the edges down until its EXACTLY how you want it. Mine is very slightly misaligned because I was not ready for how instant the bond is. However, its barely noticeable so I'm not complaining. emoticon

After letting it sit for about an hour I went around the edges with Bondini and that fixed it right up.

***** recommended I do this because afterward it feels so much more secure and like a glove. I agree totally. I dont have to worry about the top of the facade popping out from under the cowl ever again.

And now a few pics.

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Look Ma! No straps! emoticon

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Just when I thought I couldn't love this first suit of mine anymore, DAPping it made me love it even more so(in a good clean way... emoticon)!

I'm going to use Bondini to put on the cod-piece however. I'm thinking I shouldn't need near the holding strength on that as I did on the chestpiece. Not that Bondini provides any less, but the effort is minimized by not DAPping it. emoticon

Last edited by PatrickJ, 10/25/2005, 7:17 pm


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Re: Which DAP to use?


Looking good, Patrick. Wish I would have read this before I dapped. burned like hell.

BTW Holy Gauntlet Fins!!!

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