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TheBat 25 Profile
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Caped Crusader

Registered: 10-2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4248
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Re: Batman: A discussion of the "character," "murder," and "Justice"


In my mind, there is a definate line. He will use whatever force is nessisary SHORT of Lethal force, because He needs to be above that. For his sake. I don't see him as killing the joker. I would more beleive the joker dying trying to kill Batman.

But Batman wouldn't kill, because in his mind thats what makes him different from the Monsters. A Shadow Lighter.


Mind you, Its all Fiction. :P



And Rohun, i know what you mean. I watch returns, where he straps dynamite to a thug, smiles, and throws him down a hole.


First. BATMAN DOESN'T SMILE!!!

And Secondly, Batman doesn't kill. Especially with Dynamite. not very ninja.

---
-Robin



"Take Your Shot Funboy, You've Got Me Dead Bang" - Eric Draven, The Crow
6/10/2008, 12:00 am Link to this post Send Email to TheBat 25   Send PM to TheBat 25
 
Rohun Profile
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Caped Crusader

Registered: 06-2006
Location: Port Colborne, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1438
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Re: Batman: A discussion of the "character," "murder," and "Justice"


When I rewatched Returns for the first time and I saw that exact scene, I was in disbelief. "How did I not notice that before?!"

---
Adam

"Deep down, Clark is essentially a good person... Deep down, I'm not."

***ALBUM OF VARIOUS BAT EMBLEMS***
6/10/2008, 8:48 am Link to this post Send Email to Rohun   Send PM to Rohun
 
Will Kanoa Profile
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BOTB Member

Registered: 01-2005
Posts: 18
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Re: Batman: A discussion of the "character," "murder," and "Justice"


The Batman I idealize in my mind is one of tact in a way that he is never presented with this option. If killing someone is the option, then cops can do that. Swat can take out people as soon as the option is there. I see Batman more like a ninja who will not present himself to the situation until there is a sure was to disable the goon/criminal/crazy person without using lethal force. There are options....flashbangs, gas, tranquilizers, ect. In my mind martial arts is only half of Batmans composure. Gadgets, tools, and utilities are the other part. Don't get me wrong, I know alot of these things aren't quite a reality yet, but we are getting there. Ever seen Dog the bounty hunter? His type of work is what I see Batman doing....except with much more class and charisma.

-Jonathan
6/10/2008, 10:31 am Link to this post Send Email to Will Kanoa   Send PM to Will Kanoa
 
BatJet3 Profile
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Caped Crusader

Registered: 10-2006
Location: Dallas, TEXAS
Posts: 1546
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Re: Batman: A discussion of the "character," "murder," and "Justice"


Quote:

Will Kanoa wrote:

The Batman I idealize in my mind is one of tact in a way that he is never presented with this option. If killing someone is the option, then cops can do that. Swat can take out people as soon as the option is there. I see Batman more like a ninja who will not present himself to the situation until there is a sure was to disable the goon/criminal/crazy person without using lethal force. There are options....flashbangs, gas, tranquilizers, ect. In my mind martial arts is only half of Batmans composure. Gadgets, tools, and utilities are the other part. Don't get me wrong, I know alot of these things aren't quite a reality yet, but we are getting there. Ever seen Dog the bounty hunter? His type of work is what I see Batman doing....except with much more class and charisma.

-Jonathan




Dog and Batman do not belong in the same sentence....




My take on the Batman as a killer......
Realistically, if I can have that "rope" to take it that direction, in a fight with a criminal, he would most certainly end up killing just about every single one of the people he is fighting with....take pro wrestling for instance...those are rehearsed moves, with punches and kicks being "pulled" -- if one bit of timing is off, those pulled punches are very dangerous....things could go VERY wrong in a hurry.

Someone getting the crap kicked outta them by the Bat isn't going to take a fall, and will definitely get the full force of being punched or kicked or twisted....even a compound fracture could end up being lethal.

What if the guy turns just as Batman is aiming a kick, causing him to break the spine or perforate an internal organ or something....

I know he is trained and well-versed on every fighting style there is, but....maybe the goof he is beating like a drum doesn't know how to take a punch.

Punch, punch, handcuff is a wonderful fantasy for the vigilante crime-fighter, but....eventually one of those well-placed blows would be not so well-placed.

YMMV


6/10/2008, 11:05 am Link to this post Send Email to BatJet3   Send PM to BatJet3
 
Rohun Profile
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Caped Crusader

Registered: 06-2006
Location: Port Colborne, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1438
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Re: Batman: A discussion of the "character," "murder," and "Justice"


I understand in "reality" someone with Batman's skill in a real world would find it hard to not kill someone.

But since this is fiction, I feel he needs to represent someone who gets things done, but without death by his own hands.

If you take Batman to reality, you'd have to take Superman along with him. I know Supes pulls his punches (as does Spider-Man and all the other superheroes with super strength) but in "reality" there's a would be a very fine, hardly visible line between knocking someone out and completely obliterating every bone in their face.

The fights between heroes and villains sometimes lose me there, until I go back to "this is just fiction." Villains who get punched through brick walls and other things who do not possess invulnerability would surely meet their demise fairly quickly.

So, in fiction I don't believe Batman should ever kill. I said earlier unless it was the only option, and I meant it. Because Batman always finds other options. He's a problem solver, so it should never come to that.

In reality, Batman would be more like The Punisher, except without the guns. I can understand that. It's just what he represents as a fictional character that makes it so important.

---
Adam

"Deep down, Clark is essentially a good person... Deep down, I'm not."

***ALBUM OF VARIOUS BAT EMBLEMS***
6/10/2008, 1:20 pm Link to this post Send Email to Rohun   Send PM to Rohun
 
Mobjack Profile
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Caped Crusader

Registered: 02-2004
Location: Midlothian, VA
Posts: 1245
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Re: Batman: A discussion of the "character," "murder," and "Justice"


Quote:

BladeAndBatmanFan wrote:

But there will come a time when justice by the rules doesn't work.

Alice



I think Alice said it best in her initial response.

He will do everything in his power to bring the criminal to justice withing the confines of the law, but there comes a time when he has to put that thinking aside and do what is best for the greater good of Gotham.

---
"The training is nothing! The will is everything! The will to act."
6/10/2008, 2:17 pm Link to this post Send Email to Mobjack   Send PM to Mobjack
 
BladeAndBatmanFan Profile
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Sidekick

Registered: 10-2005
Location: Memphis TN
Posts: 467
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Re: Batman: A discussion of the "character," "murder," and "Justice"


Thanks. I tell ya, my wife and I are STILL Taking about this! hahaha

Also, we are trying to figure out what the Joker means in the new commercial for the Dark Knight:

"I'm Gonna Make You Break Your One Rule"

because I am convinced that he is talking about killing.....


Am I crazy, or is this all connected???






I think Alice said it best in her initial response.

He will do everything in his power to bring the criminal to justice withing the confines of the law, but there comes a time when he has to put that thinking aside and do what is best for the greater good of Gotham.





---
-------
-------
"It's not who you are inside, but what you DO that defines you!"
6/11/2008, 11:41 pm Link to this post Send Email to BladeAndBatmanFan   Send PM to BladeAndBatmanFan
 


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